Posts by Cold Steel

54

Brothers told to pack an "Armagedon survival bag."...bid gossip in Aust!

by Witness 007 in

so my mum excitedly calls and tells me how the brothers are now told to pack a survival emergency bag, so the tribulation is coming!!!

talk about clutching at straws.

shes packed her bible of course and the some non essential stuff like food...he he.

Cold Steel

Don't forget to keep your handgun in your bag. And make sure you tell the elders.

If they criticize the gun because having it means you don't believe Jehovah can keep you safe, ask them if having the bag means you don't believe Jehovah can save you without your survival bag.

I'm no Jehovah's Witness, but I believe there's a tribultation coming in which the Lord will begin to sweep the earth of the wicked. So if I'm wrong, no worry. But if right, then it doesn't mean the Jehovah's Witnesses are right.

Many religions are expecting bad times.

14

New Light on 1914

by TowerWatch in

recently someone posted a link to the watchtower article explaining why jehovahs witnesses no longer believe that jesus returned in 1914. could someone help me by posting that link again please?

thank you!.

Cold Steel

...the coming of Armageddon has never been linked with Christ's coming.

You're joking, right?

Zechariah states:

The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord , which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. ...
In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (Chapter 12)

And it becomes more detailed in Chapter 14, where Yahweh/Jesus returns, descending upon the Mount of Olives:

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. ... And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Now the Jehovah's Witnesses have two problems here. First, this is clearly speaking of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. It's also talking about the battle of Armageddon. The first problem is that these scriptures refer to the coming of the Lord, Yahweh (Jehovah), but the prophet also makes it clear that it's Christ. "And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced." Clearly this is Jesus. Zechariah also says "the Lord my God shall come." Who is this if not Jehovah?

Recall that when Jesus ascended into heaven, the two angels promised them this is how Jesus would come when he returned. And Jesus ascended where? On the Mount of Olives. He ascended there and will return there. And the prophet identifies the Messiah with Jehovah. How can this be if he is his Son? The only logical conclusion is that Yahweh is not the Father, but the Son. And it makes sense since he's the intercessor between the Father God and man. We also know that Jesus will be king over all the earth, and Zechariah identifies Jehovah as being the one who shall be king over all the earth.

The second problem is that Armageddon isn't taking place all over the world; it's taking place in Jerusalem, in the Middle East. Both of these problems mean only one thing. Old light, new light, the leaders of the Society are wrong. And not to be petty, notice that the very first verse talks about how the Lord "formed the spirit of man within him."

Three strikes and they're out! They got the entire Armageddon prophecy wrong; they misidentified Jehovah as the Father, not the Son; and they're faced with man having a "spirit" (not "breath") within him.

Or have I missed the mark??

6

A gun with one bullet in case you survive armagedon!

by Witness 007 in

imagine a convention that never ended...living bethel style forever where your neighbours were the most pious arrogant self righteous judgemental people you can imagine...and its forever!

singing kingdom songs 3 times a day forever.

witnessing to the ressurected ones with the "whitewashed" version of the truth....dont mention 1925 or 1975 or the "generation.

Cold Steel

But what if the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong? It could be worse...cows could be running the Universe!

Adam and Eve fell so that man could have a resurrection that would be far beyond their wildest dreams. As Paul stated, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (1 Cor. 2:9)

Of course being stuck in a static garden for trillions of years wouldn't be anyone's choice of how to spend the eternities. Had not Adam and Eve fallen, they would have lived forever and amounted to nothing. God not only knew they would fall, he was counting on it! That's the only way they could be "upgraded" to a resurrection that was far superior to anything Adam and Eve could have achieved living forever in a state of innocence. In fact, when Adam and Eve are resurrected, they will be like God in their glory and power.

One more thing, unless you happen to be visiting Jerusalem, you aren't going to be killed in Armageddon. Armageddon will occur when a Gentile prince invades the Holy Land, bent of the destruction of the Jews. He won't be interested in destroying Jerusalem; he wants to occupy the land but rid it once and forever of the Jews. And he'll nearly succeed. Only the return of Christ will stop the carnage.

19

Why send Satan down to earth in 1914 - didn't we have enough problems?

by Xanthippe in

i was just reading an old watchtower quote on another thread, he was quoting it straight from jw.org by the way, and i was astonished to be reminded of this teaching.

why would a loving god crown his son king and then send satan and hordes of demons to our planet?.

we live in a huge universe, why send these monsters here?

Cold Steel

Trying to make sense of JW scriptural exegesis is the first mistake. Satan has always been on Earth (ever since his rebellion in the councils of heaven). John writes that the dragon's tail took one third of the stars and cast them to Earth:

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. (Rev. 12:4)

Satan was cast out in the Beginning and was in the Garden of Eden when man was placed there. His role on Earth is to tempt the children of men and try them, to see if they (knowing good from evil) will choose the good and reject the other. Only during the Millennium will he be bound, and no longer will man be tempted. To say that he had a place in the Kingdom of Heaven until 1914 is a manmade doctrine. God put emnity between Satan and man, so that while he may have power to bruise his heel, man, through Christ, would have power to crush his head.

11

144,000 as Kings and Priests Really? or not?

by Crazyguy in

in revelation chapters 7 and 14 there it talks about the 144k but says nothing of them being kings and priests.

in revelation chapter 5 and 20 it mentions ones being kings and judges, but if you notice in chapter 20 verse 4-5 it talks about martyrs coming to life judging and reigning with jesus, not the 144k specifically.

in verse 5-6 talks about the first resurrection and that all that share in this first resurrection will be priests of god and of jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.. so notice in revelation chapters 7 and 19 a great crowd is mentioned being alive standing before the throne standing at the same time as the 144k are mentioned.

Cold Steel

One must be careful when making assumptions, and so many religions have attempted to define the 144,000 mentioned in scripture.

Where I feel the Jehovah's Witnesses have missed the proverbial boat is in stipulating that there are two classes of resurrected beings: a great crowd and a smaller number of "other sheep" who will be heavenly beings of spirit.

Every man (and woman) have the opportunity of receiving the same resurrection as Christ's, and there's no limit to the numbers. The 144,000 are special servants of God who will help gather the elect of God before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. One also must be careful in assuming that because there is a "spiritual Israel" that it replaces the house of Israel. It's not that God substituted the former for the latter, but that the latter was "adopted" or grafted into the former. "For God hath not cast off his people." (Romans 11:1-2)

If the 144,000 are to be from "spiritual Israel," then why does the apostle take the time to individually list the tribes to be represented? As you stated, those tribes haven't gone anywhere; but God knows who they are and where they are. And if they are priests, even high priests, then they certainly won't take this honor unto themselves, but will be called of God, as was Aaron. And they will be ordained by those with authority. There is nothing to suggest that their resurrections will be any different than yours, mine or anyone else's. They will have special missions, and all will be men (not women); they will go throughout the earth with a special mission. The "great crowd" the apostle sees already are in heaven, "standing before the throne" of God. During the Millennium, the earth will be restored to its paradisiacal state. At the end of the thousand years, things won't just continue on, but the earth will be completely cleansed and glorified, and become like the sun.

In short, people who "inherit the earth" and are made coheirs with Christ, inheriting all that the Father has will be, in a real sense, gods, having authority (kings) and power (priests) to God and His Father.

11

144,000 as Kings and Priests Really? or not?

by Crazyguy in

in revelation chapters 7 and 14 there it talks about the 144k but says nothing of them being kings and priests.

in revelation chapter 5 and 20 it mentions ones being kings and judges, but if you notice in chapter 20 verse 4-5 it talks about martyrs coming to life judging and reigning with jesus, not the 144k specifically.

in verse 5-6 talks about the first resurrection and that all that share in this first resurrection will be priests of god and of jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.. so notice in revelation chapters 7 and 19 a great crowd is mentioned being alive standing before the throne standing at the same time as the 144k are mentioned.

Cold Steel

You guys may not understand the term in context. "Kings and Priests" represent both power and authority. The apostle John teaches that all those who gain eternal life will be coheirs with Christ, inheriting all that the Father has. Theosis was a popular teaching with first century Christians. The concept was maintained by the Eastern Orthodox, but dropped as heretical by the Roman Catholics.

As children of God, we are promised a resurrection like Christ's, and power and authority like Christ's. In short, the term "Kings and Priests" symbolize God's authority as King, and his Priesthood, or Power. In much the same way we have the potential of becoming like our earthly fathers, we have the potential of becoming like our Heavenly Father.

Those who become kings and priests will inherit the same authority and power that God/Christ has. Not that they will compete or overshadow God, but they become one with Him and carry on His work, which is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

St. Athanasius of Alexandria, "The Son of God became man, that we might become god."

----------------------

"For many fathers, theosis goes beyond simply restoring people to their state before the Fall of Adam and Eve, teaching that because Christ united the human and divine natures in his person, it is now possible for someone to experience closer fellowship with God than Adam and Eve initially experienced in the Garden of Eden, and that people can become more like God than Adam and Eve were at that time. Some Orthodox theologians go so far as to say that Jesus would have become incarnate for this reason alone, even if Adam and Eve had never sinned."
Theosis - OrthoWiki

26

Is Jehovah Male Or Female, Manly of Womanly

by frankiespeakin in

why is jehovah in the bible a male?

why not female since he is a god that is not earthly but from another realm where they don't have sex differences, does he have a penis?

does he have to pee and relieve himself?

Cold Steel

GOD is not human, and it is stupid of you to even suggest that GOD is like us........ridiculous

Why is man made in God's image? Jesus was, according to scripture, the "express image" of the Father and he was in the image of a man. He also was resurrected with a fully physical body of flesh and bone. Why would the Father be a spirit and the Son be a physical entity? Jesus did everything he possibly could to prove to the apostles that he was an actual physical being. He was a spirit only between the time he died and was resurrected.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, which sometime were disobedient when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

So Jesus died, became alive in the spirit, and went to preach to the spirits in prison. Origen, an early Christian father, stated:

After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees.

Thus, Jesus did, in fact, go to Paradise as a spirit, with the spirit of the transgressor. After three days he was resurrected and his body was gone from the tomb. Why? Because his spirit was reunited with it. So he was a physical being with a spirit, and he was in the "express image" of the Father. Man was made in the image and likeness of God, and when Seth was born to Adam, that son was in the "image and likeness" of Adam. The question then becomes, why does God have a body that looks like ours? And vice versa. We're also called the "children of God" or the "children of light." Paul writes of Jesus:

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

It's one of those things that aren't so easy to explain. Why does God need a head, arms, legs, feet, eyes, ears, nose, mouth? Does He really sit on a throne? Why does His body resemble that of a terrestrial being?

Why does He appear human?

28

I know this sounds crazy but, what if?

by earthfire in

so i've been thinking about my jw family members a lot lately, especially since i just saw them a couple of weeks ago at my youngest sisters wedding.

with all the current animosity towards apostates that seems to be more aggressive than usual it hit me when i saw this posted on fb today.

would it be possible for the gb to demand that jw's kill apostates?

Cold Steel

Interesting point. Especially that Elisha, on his own and with no apparent commandment from God, decided the sons of Ahab had to go.

In defense of Elisha, the heathen priests didn't just present a competitive religion. They oversaw, encouraged and even commanded human sacrifice, even infants, and sexual perversion. It wasn't a matter of the priests teaching different doctrines; they were decadent and disgusting practitioners of evil cults. Even before Elisha's order, God, Himself, had destroyed a number of them in Elijah's day; and Elijah ordered the execution of hundreds of them. These were people beyond repentence, beyond conversion.

The scary part about Jehovah's Witnesses is that if their leadership orders it, they'll certainly have source material to point to. And their views of apostates are radically different than Elijah's/Elisha's. A priest who throws infants into a fire is just slightly worse than, say, those who teach the doctrine of the Trinity. It all depends on how much power the people give their leaders, and how dearly the leaders covet their power. Leaders with limitless power are unpredictable when their power is threatened. And the GB is very creative when interpreting scripture.

The only good thing is that we "unbelievers" and "apostates" have guns and ammuntion. The JWs, not so much.

11

144,000 as Kings and Priests Really? or not?

by Crazyguy in

in revelation chapters 7 and 14 there it talks about the 144k but says nothing of them being kings and priests.

in revelation chapter 5 and 20 it mentions ones being kings and judges, but if you notice in chapter 20 verse 4-5 it talks about martyrs coming to life judging and reigning with jesus, not the 144k specifically.

in verse 5-6 talks about the first resurrection and that all that share in this first resurrection will be priests of god and of jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.. so notice in revelation chapters 7 and 19 a great crowd is mentioned being alive standing before the throne standing at the same time as the 144k are mentioned.

Cold Steel

...talks about the first Resurrection and that all that share in this first Resurrection will be Priests of God and of Jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.

The second death has no power over them, but they will be Priests of God and of the Messiah, and they will reign with him for a 1000 years.

So all who are resurrected in the first Resurrection and those who make it through the great tribulation will be a nation of Priests and will reign with Jesus not just the symbolic numbered 144k.

Very astute observations.

10

According to Hebrews 3:1-6;10:19-22 Jesus is the faithful slave, as the great high priest

by wannabe in

Cold Steel

Wow...this thread is the perfect example of why prophecy is not of any private interpretation. You have one verse speaking of a faithful and discreet slave (or "faithful and wise servant"), and the JW Governing Body has adopted it as their personal calling card.

Actually, Jesus is NOT the faithful and wise servant; he is the returning Lord who judges his servants. In his parable, the faithful servant is representative of those who are ready for the Lord's return. If the JW WTBTS is God's especially chosen organization, the faithful and wise servant symbolize members of the church who have prepared to meet their master. Conversely, the unwise servant symbolizes those who are not prepared to meet the master. This parable was not considered a prophecy about faithful and apostate GB members. In fact, there's not one scripture in either the Old or New Testaments that prophesy of the Governing Body in any way, shape or form. (Well, with the possible exception of Matthew 7:23.)

Look at the parable in context:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I see no prophecy here; only a parable, which is defined as a simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson. The lesson above is that all men need to prepare for the coming of their master—not just the governing body of a publishing company. Prophecy is defined as a prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration. As you can see, there's no prophecy here. Besides, Jesus said that all men should be servants of their fellow man. Again, not just a governing body, but all men.

Thus, the "faithful and wise servant" is each believer in Christ; and as believers, it's up to us to be ready for the return of the Master. Those who aren't will be the "evil servant" spoken of in the parable. Beware those who would use scripture to exercise unrighteous dominion over others. "For many will come in my name...and mislead many."

Isn't that one of the main messages of Matthew 24?